kalpurna: (fraser)
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posted by [personal profile] kalpurna at 05:10pm on 01/01/2007 under , ,
Recently, the Due South fandom had its first wank since... maybe the Ray Wars? I don't know. Basically, it was fairly overblown by fandom_wank (SHOCKED FACE), and as far as I know not that many people got angry about it, at least in public, and anyway it would have been considered a slow day in HP fandom. Nevertheless, it's kind of a milestone, I think, because we're normally oh so careful what we say in DS.

I should start off by saying that I think people on fandom_wank were less fair to [livejournal.com profile] aukestrel than they should have been. Not only because, frankly, Due South is a more OTP-laden canon than other fandoms have to deal with (I'm sorry, but I'm a lot more sympathetic toward this rant being about Fraser/Kowalski than if it were about Harry/Draco), but also because I have a hunch that what she said is not that far from what a lot of us feel about certain things.

Here's the thing. Even though I would never, ever say this to anyone's face, because I'm not confrontational online, there is definitely a part of me that feels the same way she does about Ray/Ray. And about F/V/K, and about Rodney/Carson, and incest pairings. And that little part of me doesn't say, "What you're doing is not my cup of tea, but That's OK, Because I'm a Reasonable and Tolerant Fangirl." It says, "What you're doing is STUPID AND WRONG AND YOU ARE WRONG SHUT UP." I don't particularly like it, but it's there, and I have a fair bit of confidence that most people in fandom feel that way about something, some issue.

If someone says shitty things about Fraser, I don't just feel bad because they're insulting my taste in characters: I feel bad because I feel like they're insulting someone who means a lot to me, a friend of mine who has mattered in my life. And yes, that sounds a little crazycakes. But... you're in fandom too. And I think you know what I mean.

And that, I'm pretty sure, is a good thing. Fandom is all about caring more than other people do, about looking at characters and seeing them as people, about loving fiction, about taking those Velveteen Rabbits and making them real, treating them with seriousness and with care. If you don't get worked up about something in fandom, I don't want to know you. The one thing about fandom_wank that makes me absolutely sick is that they keep their fucking distance. FANDOM IS NOT ABOUT KEEPING YOUR DISTANCE. Fandom is not about keeping your distance.

But the discussion that didn't happen as a result of her post, and I think it's interesting that it didn't, is the conversation we as fandom might need to have about civility. I mean absolutely no disrespect to [livejournal.com profile] aukestrel when I say this, because, again, I think she said what she felt and I absolutely understand why she felt that way, but I think DS fandom would be a very different place if there were posts like that every day of the week. And I think that needs to be acknowledged.

The question we maybe need to be asking is, "Why should we be careful with our speech in fandom?" After all, it's the internet! Sockpuppets abound, and it's not like we'll ever have to come face to face with most of the people we talk to. Why does it matter whether or not we act gracious about the pairings or kinks or, let's face it, people we think are wrong wrong wrong?

The thing is, though, it's a pretty easy question to answer. We should be careful with our speech because our speech is all we have. We are on the internet, we do have a limited amount of interaction and accountability, and that's why we need to take great care with what we say and with how we say it: because that's all we've got. The internet is an extraordinarily difficult medium in which to communicate adequately, what with its lack of body language and facial expressions and inflection, and therefore courtesy does not come easily. Language is all we've got, and we don't even have the full run of that.

I was amused by the commenter over at fandom_wank who derided [livejournal.com profile] aukestrel's frequent use of caps and italics, because that's one of my favorite things about DS; the degree to which we try and convey conversational tone through text. Paul Gross arms, baby! \o/ Fandom at large needs more ways to convey EMPHASIS and sarcasm, not fewer; we're trying to have, as I pointed out above, a pretty intimate conversation, in a medium that's textual and public. It's difficult, you guys! We're trying really hard!

And I do give you an E for Effort, fandom. The comments to her post were unbelievably civil, by any standards; I especially liked [livejournal.com profile] justbreathe80's comment, and the ensuing thread. It would have been very easy for people to go "OMG U R MEEN," and largely, they didn't.

Unfortunately, I think the real underpinning of the problem with that post, the reason that people got pretty hurt by it, was that [livejournal.com profile] aukestrel insisted on taking the argument away from the pairing and toward the people who write the pairing, calling them sheep and popularity-seekers and lazy writers. And I have to draw a distinction here between stuff that is okay to think, and stuff that is okay to say. I, personally, think Republican views are WRONG. I think they are INCORRECT and also HURTING AMERICA. But at Thanksgiving Dinner with my born-again-Christian aunt, I don't bring that up. I talk about it privately with my friends, and I don't think that makes me somehow morally bankrupt.

I guess what I'm saying is that the nature of fannishness is such that sometimes, we all go a little batshit. But there's a good way and a bad way to deal with our small moments of freakin' out, and I'm personally glad DS fandom tends to choose the politer route. There's a Cult of Nice? Oh good, sign me up.

ETA: Hee! I was curious about the last time we got wanked, so I went and found it (October 2005). Here's a quote from the report: It's all pretty polite but this is as wanky as this fandom gets these days. ♥ ♥ ♥
ETA2: AHAHAHA. Here's the last one before THAT (September 2003): ...and really, the posts are surprisingly calm and well reasoned and non-wanky or flamey. We win!
Mood:: 'exanimate' exanimate
There are 70 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] svilleficrecs.livejournal.com at 12:33am on 02/01/2007
"Fandom is not about keeping your distance."

AMEN!
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 12:36am on 02/01/2007
Yay! I get so freaking annoyed by people being all "oh, these silly silly women, what are they getting so worked up about? It's fictional!" SHUT UP AND GO AWAY MY OTP HATES YOUR FACE.
 
posted by [identity profile] brooklinegirl.livejournal.com at 12:34am on 02/01/2007
we are the most polite wankers EVER. *g* There has been a wank or two over the past few years but I don't think we ever got as far as fandom wank, mostly because we are, yeah, the sort of, "well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I appreciate your fervor. That said, there are a few concerns..." wankers, and it's not messy or fucked up enough for FW, you know?

(which is YAY.)

Your point on politeness - it's just - in my head, it falls into the concept of just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD. I try to take that into account whenever I'm feeling wanky, and it usually works.

the cult of nice! Fraser would so approve!
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 12:40am on 02/01/2007
hee, it's TRUE! I totally started giggling when the Fandom Wankers were all "...due South has a fandom?" Because, uhm, why do YOU think fw is unaware of our existence? *thinky face* And then they go "oh, all the crazies are in DS fandom!" Uhm, yeah. /logic?

and, dude, we TOTALLY all have times when we're feeling wanky! IT HAPPENS. WE WANK A LITTLE IN OUR HEARTS.

Fraser is a founding member of the Cult of Nice! It only takes an extra moment to be courteous, Tracey! \o/
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posted by [identity profile] cathexys.livejournal.com at 01:01am on 02/01/2007
Fandom is not about keeping your distance.

That's it in a nutshell. And I'm getting freaking tired of people making it about everything but this...b/c in the end, that's what it is about...investment in the characters, the shows, the stories, one another...
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 01:33am on 02/01/2007
Dudes, if you aren't a tiny bit insane about some aspect of fandom, LEAVE! I cannot convey in mere words how little I am interested in hearing comments about how we should be all cool and distanced about what we love. Um, missing the point of being a fan.
 
posted by [identity profile] snarkyducky.livejournal.com at 01:07am on 02/01/2007
frequent use of caps and italics, because that's one of my favorite things about DS; the degree to which we try and convey conversational tone through text. Paul Gross arms, baby! \o/

i'm relatively new to dS and i must say that's one of my favs too.. it's just so cute -- the first few times i saw it, i barely figured out what PG arms were, and i just smiled the goofiest smile in about 3 years.. i've never come across such a mellow and yet *winsome* group of fangirls (most of my previous fandoms fall into either juvenile OR placid) ... dS somehow is both full of vitality and yet doesn't get "in-your-face" about its cuteness.


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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 01:37am on 02/01/2007
yayyy! Our fandom = the best. \o/\o/\o/
 
posted by [identity profile] custardpringle.livejournal.com at 01:16am on 02/01/2007
*clicks on the fandom_wank link*

*regrets it almost immediately*

You know, I've drifted off from dS fandom because all the BNFs got sucked into SGA, but I've always seen it as a happy, friendly place. Then I am reminded that all fandom is batshit beneath the surface.
And also:
I would have thought that the dS wankers metaphorical dicks would have fallen off by now considering the frequency and vigorousness of their wanking. dS was my first fandom and it sent me screaming off into the night quite some time ago.

Um, okay, I've only been in this fandom for about three months, but I'm pretty sure I'm justified in saying: what the fuck? This does not sound like any due South fandom I recognize.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 01:39am on 02/01/2007
But, honey! Didn't you know that FW is the ultimate authority on fannish behavior? Aren't you aware that they totally know us really really well, despite A) only ever seeing our worst side, and B) having left the fandom, if they were ever in it at all, and C) not, in many cases, being sure we exist? Clearly due South is a Wankpile o' Crazy! GEEZ, GET A CLUE, FOOL.
ext_3123: Ray Kowalski, slightly forlorn (Default)
posted by [identity profile] ifreet.livejournal.com at 01:19am on 02/01/2007
Huh. I hadn't seen that yet.

Not liking a certain pairing? Totally a-okay, and honestly, it's probably the default setting for a lot of fans. It seems as though most people have a favourite pairing, whether or not they consider it their one TRUE pairing. And yes, I expect fics featuring specific pairings to be rec'ed with the pairing clearly labelled, so it's not like I disagree with the intended point of [livejournal.com profile] aukestrel's rant.

There is a bit of a difference, though, between having that visceral "OMG, bad pairing! Bad pairing!" reaction and slinging names at people who write the pairing. Calling writers popularity-seeking, fad-writing sheep for playing with a pairing seems to cross the line. As does saying that a given pairing necessitates that one or more characters be completely OOC, because I get that enough from my anti-slash friends.

I like dS fandom rather a lot. Partly because of the seriously slashy canon, partly because of the "we're the nice fandom" conversation that pops up all over the comms. And partly because, when I first started poking around on LJ for ds fandom, it seemed so OPEN.

I love what seems to be the default pairing for most dS slash fans - Fraser and RayK? Not getting old at all. But at heart, I am an alternative pairings fan. Largely because, in a prior foray into anime fandom, I found that the alt pairing writers worked harder, because they knew they had to convince their readers, whereas standard pairing writers were tapping into this vast library of existing belief in their pairing and could afford to use sloppy shorthand to build the relationship. Unfortunately, alternative pairing authors in that anime fandom were made often to feel unwelcome on the larger lists, because they didn't play to the OTP. I found it hard to find the fics, and harder still to get in touch with active mls or comms.

At the time I came to ds on LJ, there was a lot of F/K flying around, plus rather extensive archives of F/K (the F/V I had to hunt for). And then there was a lot of Ray/Ray and F/K/V popping up, and although there was quite a bit of "I don't get it" and "SOOOO not my thing" posting going on, there wasn't any public vitriol being directed toward the authors themselves. And I thought, 'This is the place to be. Screw that shipping war nonsense.'

Which - that particular rant and a few of its commenters aside- I expect to continue to be the case. Because this IS the nice fandom. Even when it's members occasionally have something to get of their chests.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 01:44am on 02/01/2007
Yup! Yup, yup, yup. See, me myself, I am NOT an alternate pairings girl, and F/K is my OTP forevercakes amen. But I do recognize that there are REASONS to like alternate pairings, that they are not, for heaven's sake, a sign of evil/death of the fandom, and that many people do a very good job writing them, for very valid reasons.

I, of course, will never touch that lovely writing with a ten foot pole ever the end, but. I do not get angry about this out loud! for lo, we are the nice fandom.

*sticks tongue out at fandom_wank*
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posted by [identity profile] etben.livejournal.com at 01:20am on 02/01/2007
we are the tidiest of wankers! which, wow: what an image. \o?

and, yes. I think it's important to be tidy, and to be polite, and to avoid being offensive when you can do so (which, as far as I'm concerned, is always), because this is a big sandbox, sure, but it's still a public playground, you know? and part of public property is the public responsibility to take care of that and play nice and share the shovels and take turns on the swingset and...yeah. And, sure, I'm fairly (or, um, extremely) conflict-averse, and I don't get into arguments even when I maybe should, but still: playing nice is important! and it doesn't make you a sissy.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 01:50am on 02/01/2007
Yes, we are, we are! We carry handkerchiefs at all times, to clean up any unfortunate accidents, and we endeavor not to sweat on each other while engaged in strenuous activity! \o/ \o/

Don't Piss in the Sandbox: my fandom motto.
 
posted by [identity profile] entropical87.livejournal.com at 01:58am on 02/01/2007
God, yes. To everything. I know there have been times when I look through recs and want to cry because OMG YOUR K/V, F/V, F/K/V MAKES MY SOUL BLEED! HOW DARE YOU ALTER MY OTP!!!11! I very much doubt that there's a fangirl out there who hasn't felt something similar. Insanity is an intrinsic part of the lifestyle and, as you said, fandom is not about distance (I'm thinking about getting that tattooed somewhere *wink*) But I step back from the crazy ledge and recognize that reaction for what it is: irrational, and something I'd regret later if I acted upon it. Fandom is just like any other social forum: sometimes you have to grit your teeth and bear it for the good of the group.

That said, I'm not one to judge [livejournal.com profile] aukestrel for what she said. We all have those days. It could happen to anyone. (My god, we do wank politely, don't we? O_O)

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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 02:29am on 02/01/2007
IT MAKES ME HURTY IN MY HEART! WHY R U MEEN TO OTP? SAD SAD FACE!! (um, why is my internal monologue so emolicious? No one knows!) We are all crazy a little bit in our souls, and it makes me happy that that's true. But not everything that is in our souls needs to see the light of day, I think.

we are so polite in our wanking, it fills me with joy.

p.s. icon loooove
 
posted by [identity profile] joandarck.livejournal.com at 02:23am on 02/01/2007
...What you and they said.

I don't see why people shouldn't rant and express their feelings every now and then, if it's in a private space, you know? but I totally see your point about that changing the overall atmosphere if people did it a lot.

The first fandom I got involved with was a lot less friendly than Due South, and expressing any kind of opinion was really dangerous, because everyone was looking to fight all the time. So, I tend to be blunter about things now than I would have, just because I'm so excited that I can. I can say "F/K/V makes my skin crawl" and figure that my dear friends who write and read F/K/V understand that I have no problem with the fact that they love that shit, and that I wouldn't stop them if I could. (...Maybe I'm wrong about that? But I go on that assumption.)

There are other opinions I have had on occasion that I *would* expect to offend people, and, ya know, I don't say them. Not because I feel like I can't, but because fighting and stirring shit up just isn't what I'm here for.

I've seen people complaining that dS fandom is *too* nice, that it's stifling, but personally, part of why I try to be polite is because I don't feel like we're being forced to be Stepford Fans -- I can say what I'm thinking, and that's okay -- so there's room to *choose* to be decent company. We're all here for the love, like you said.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 02:36am on 02/01/2007
Yeah, see, on the one hand, I get it! I do! But on the other hand, I'm not sure that it would be okay if people did it all the time in public.

We are SO OKAY with people saying stuff like that, actually, that it's kind of weird. I see rants and paeans all the time in DS that I totally, utterly disagree with, and it's just... okay! back button! scroll quickly with one hand over the eyes! It's just when people say stuff about the PEOPLE WHO SAY STUFF, that... omg, I need to stop saying the word "stuff" and go take a nap. Criticizing pairings = okay, criticizing people = not so much.

I do see the Stepford Fans criticism, but I'm just really unconvinced that that's what's happening in DS. You know? Like you said, it's about choice; no one's forcing you to be friendly, and we'll take it in stride if you aren't (no mass defriendings, no bannination), but we'd all prefer it if you did. Much like the real world! Actually!
 
posted by [identity profile] greyandgrey.livejournal.com at 02:39am on 02/01/2007
It’s fanatical, it’s peculiar, but all of the characters that I have loved – even if that character is a real person – have enriched my life by allowing me to see the world through their eyes.

That idea, which you expressed in other words in this post, is why I'm here. And it's one of the passions that got me into Chicago because that's a line from one of my essays XP
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 06:20am on 02/01/2007
God, SO TRUE. That is what makes us fans! Hi! And that is what makes fans AWESOME (while admittedly a tiny bit nutso)! And, awww, I totally wrote about fandom for my college essay too. ♥
 
posted by [identity profile] svilleficrecs.livejournal.com at 04:59am on 02/01/2007
Consider yourself officially responsible for my first Due South fic (http://svilleficrecs.livejournal.com/439808.html). ;) (F-locked, btw, since it's a draft)
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 08:01am on 02/01/2007
adfsadfsad YAY YAY WELCOME TO THE FANDOM
loz: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] loz at 07:46am on 02/01/2007
I really couldn't agree with you more.

Considering how large dS fandom is, considering how quickly it moves - we wank (in that dark, nasty little way) once every few months. More like twice a year. We're the caring, sharing fandom - and sure, we're all completely insane, but that's the fun part. \o/

I've had about three instances where I have immediately regretted pushing my usual default decision of being the Fraser of fandom to the side. It's just easier to express yourself in a way which is respectful - even if, in the deep recesses of your mind you're thinking "I THINK YOU'RE TACKY AND I HATE YOU! YOU'RE BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD!" Okay, so in some ways it's a little bit disingenuous, but you need to pick your battles in fandom, and you need to pick your armour and weaponry accordingly.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 08:05am on 02/01/2007
We are AWESOME. And yeah, we're not perfect, but we WORK at it, you know? We TRY not to be gross and wanky. \o/ \o/

In the long run, it just tends to work out better if you're respectful of people. Even though that's what you're thinking inside. Honestly, I think the big problem is people thinking that fandom interactions are somehow different than real world interactions. You still have to be courteous, even if it's the internet! For the same reasons!
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posted by [identity profile] ignazwisdom.livejournal.com at 07:50am on 02/01/2007
First, congratulations on making [livejournal.com profile] metafandom :) Second, I now feel like a hugely dispassionate loser because while I do have OTPs, I almost never get worked up about people writing things that are not my OTP. I'm most definitely batshit in other regards, though! Maybe I can make up for my pairing apathy with -- I don't know, canon/continuity craziness, or something.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 08:08am on 02/01/2007
Hey, sweet! *g*

OMG, no, it TOTALLY counts if you are batshit in other regards! All I require is a modicum of batshittery. If you have ever said to yourself, "OK, I know it's just a TV show, but omg Paul learn your own canon Fraser totally knows how to dance," and really been pretty pissed about it even if you pretended like it was no big deal, that TOTALLY counts. Bonus points if you then made up an elaborate justification for canon ("Fraser is embarrassed dancing because he's in the UNIFORM and it's INAPPROPRIATE!") ♥
 
posted by [identity profile] mergatrude.livejournal.com at 09:50am on 02/01/2007
Hi! I really loved this a lot. I love what you said, I loved the responses you drew from other people, and it typifies my experiences in this fandom over the last three years.

And now I'm thinking that maybe we are the Nice Fandom because of Fraser, because when your canon places emphasis on respect for others, on justice, on a fair go... well, if the fans aren't moved by and motivated by these things then why are they here?

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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 09:56am on 02/01/2007
Oh, good! I get very nervous posting stuff like this, so I'm very glad that everything seems to have gone according to plan. And, um, that sounded more megalomaniacal than I thought it would?

OMG, I love that theory! I love the idea that deep deep in our hearts, we really DO believe that it only takes an extra moment to be courteous! *INFINITE HEARTS* Fraser, my darling, you have INFECTED us! That's so funny, because I once read someone talking about DS fandom taking its politeness cues from Canadian culture, and I remember feeling vaguely that it... wasn't exactly on the mark. Now, I know what the problem was! We aren't taking cues from CANADA. We're taking them from FRASER.

*laughs at you*
 
posted by [identity profile] oulangi.livejournal.com at 10:25am on 02/01/2007
I absolutely agree that fandom is, by definition something you *must* be passionate about to participate in. Of course that doesn't preclude from being really funny too. I enjoy both, and I think as long as we can laugh at ourselves - which seems like you're doing - its win win for everyone ;)
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 02:34pm on 02/01/2007
Well, yeah; fandom can be ridiculous, and if we stop laughing at ourselves we won't get anywhere. I'm a huge fan of [livejournal.com profile] mina_de_malfois, for example. But... I still think there's a difference between "laughing at us," and "laughing at them". And while it can be an easy line to cross, I think it bears remembering that the stupid things Danemma shippers do are basically, fundamentally akin to the stupid things we all do, or think about doing, all the time. Over-identification is a problem (and an asset) we have collectively, and the way we deal with it should be the way any community deals with its issues: by being civil. (Civility, the quality belonging to those who live in cities! *is a Classics dork*)
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posted by [personal profile] msilverstar at 05:59pm on 02/01/2007
Here via metafandom, and I think you'd have done a lot better to be recognizing the limits of your own opinions, rather than telling other people WHAT FANDOM IS. Fandom is what it is for the fans, and sometimes that's a hell of a lot different from what it is for you. Very few other people are personally insulted when someone disses their favorite character. Are you honestly saying they are BAD FANS? Cos that's how your statement comes out.

It's fine to talk about what fandom is for you, but when you say fandom is taking those Velveteen Rabbits and making them real, I am boggled. That's so far from my fandom that it's like Opposite Land.

I'm fine with agreeing to disagree, I just want you to understand that other people can be perfectly happy fans with entirely different views. And when you imply we're BAD FANS, it's annoying.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 02:26am on 03/01/2007
Well, I tend to assume that if people are reading an essay that *I* wrote, in *my* livejournal, that they get that it's going to have... my opinions? So I don't disclaim every sentence with "I think that, in my particular case," but instead assume people will agree or disagree with what I say, and tell me why. I didn't realize my essay came off as dogmatic, and I'm sorry if it struck you that way. Also, I might have taken more care with that if I thought I really was saying something offensive, but, um, saying "fandom is about caring a little too much" doesn't strike me as that controversial a statement? I certainly didn't mean to imply that caring about characters is the only way to be fannish, but I do think that fandom is, necessarily, about being a little more invested in something – the canon, your version of the characters, your fannish community – than most people would consider, well, normal.

Very few other people are personally insulted when someone disses their favorite character.

I'm pretty sure that's not true. Yeah, most of us self-censor before saying "omg John Sheppard is a SAINT you SLUTBAG", which is kind of my point, but in my experience, a lot of people feel this way a little bit. You know?

Oh, wait, or maybe I came off as saying "only canon whores are real fans"? Because I can see why this essay might give that impression, in retrospect, and that's certainly not what I meant to imply. I just think that if there isn't something here that you love, that you get a little crazycakes over sometimes in your head, that, well... I don't know, I just don't see why you'd stay. And I wanted to stand up for, a little bit, or try to explain why (I personally think) it's a pretty commonplace thing for fans to have wanky moments.
 
posted by [identity profile] lovelokest.livejournal.com at 06:28pm on 02/01/2007
Word. The fen of dS are nice, friendly and still actively squeeing over a show that went off the air in '98! While I don't actively read Ray/Ray, my heart swells and I do a happy dance at the amount of RayK/RayV fic being written because to me it shows that the distance between the RayV folk and the RayK folk closing! Happyness! (I first got into dS fandom just after the Ray wars when there was still lingering bitterness. I find it fascinating to read RayK/Fraser stories written then and compare them to the ones written now. The ones written now tend to be much more fair to RayV.)

One reason I keep coming back to dS is that it is a happy, happy fandom with little of the wankery that kills fandom interest for me. My fellow fans are nice!

The other is "Dude! Buddy breathing! Dogsledding off into the sunrise! Subtext!"

*snuggles her happy fandom*
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 08:18pm on 03/01/2007
Due South is a fandom of HAPPINESS where HAPPY THINGS HAPPEN! \o/ And I totally agree about the Ray/Ray phenomenon making me happy, for that very reason: it means that we collectively love everyone, even if specific people prefer specific pairings.
 
posted by [identity profile] millefiori.livejournal.com at 06:41pm on 02/01/2007
I love this post, and your reply to custardpringle! F_W is currently featuring another Harry Potter wank and I saw some comments along the lines of 'It's HP, what do you expect?' and 'I can't believe Snape has any nice fangirls' and I'm like, Dude, how can you think you know anything about a fandom or the people in it when your focus is on the worst behavior you can find? HP is full of smart, kind, gracious, funny people, and the Snape fans are among the smartest, kindest, most gracious people I've ever known. The thing is, *they* don't tend to show up on the F_W radar.

I'm happy to be a member of the Cult of Nice, regardless of what fandom I'm currently in love with. I like to think Fraser would be proud....
ext_7824: Greta Salpeter (Default)
posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 08:23pm on 03/01/2007
It's sort of inevitable, you know? If all you know about a particular fandom is its instances of crazy, then you probably think that fandom's pretty crazy. That's my big complaint about FW, really; the phenomenon itself doesn't bother me, but the attitude that sometimes surrounds it does. (Still, I do think it's possible for some fandoms to be worse than others at the courtesy thing, as a group, and HP doesn't always win prizes; not least because it is SO BIG and SO YOUNG (in terms of age of participants).) But that's a generalization, and when it comes to INDIVIDUALS? it means basically nothing.

*Fraser gives you a MEDAL OF NICE*
 
posted by [identity profile] norah.livejournal.com at 07:39pm on 02/01/2007
It only takes an extra second to be courteous

♥ dS fandom, you know? We are very nice! Except when we're not, but honestly, when I have my bitchface days? I do it under heavy lock and filter. Like your Thanksgiving with the Republicans.

I do take exception to the idea that fandom is all about passion for some aspect of canon, though. I have never been what I would call "passionate" about canon for most of my fandoms. Possibly not for any of them, depending on your definition of passion. I don't, in fact, get worked up about anything fannish, really. I am passionate about fandom as a community, but that's different. And that doesn't mean I need to leave, or shut up; I just do fandom differently than you do. If that means you don't want to know me, then that's okay too - I just thought it was funny to find that sort of "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" rhetoric in a post about how we really should be polite and not impose our irrational emotional feelings about fandom on the fannish conversation.
ext_7824: Greta Salpeter (Default)
posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 08:30pm on 03/01/2007
Flock is our FRIEND! Especially in the case of the bitchface!

Well, I mean, I hope I didn't muddy my point with my rhetoric, which it seems like I might have done. But I didn't mean to imply that fandom is all about passion for some aspect of canon, so much as that fandom is all about passion; passion which sometimes causes us to react inappropriately for social situations. Such as when my RL friends imply that fandom is for fat losers in basements, and my immediate reaction is "SO IS YOUR DUMB FACE DUMB-O." My post was mostly meant to defend the natural tendency to feel that way about fannish things, because fandom is – I really do think – all about over-investment in stuff, and to explain why I don't think that such reactions, while understandable, need to make it to public posts as a general rule.
 
posted by [identity profile] ravenclaw-devi.livejournal.com at 11:00pm on 02/01/2007
(via metafandom)

Fandom is all about caring more than other people do, about looking at characters and seeing them as people, about loving fiction, about taking those Velveteen Rabbits and making them real, treating them with seriousness and with care.

Wellllll... to a degree. Yes, fandom is about being passionate about the object of fannish devotion (that's the difference between a fan and, I don't know, a casual viewer), but IMHO, there is such a thing as taking fandom too seriously. The moment you're willing to destroy friendships with real people (and yes, there are a real people on the other end of the internet) over differing opinions about fictional characters, you've crossed the line into batshit.
ext_7824: Greta Salpeter (Default)
posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 08:37pm on 03/01/2007
Yup, that was pretty much what I was trying to say, although I may have failed to say it coherently. :) The next bit after the part you quoted (and, incidentally, the part [livejournal.com profile] metafandom quoted) says, But the discussion that didn't happen as a result of her post, and I think it's interesting that it didn't, is the conversation we as fandom might need to have about civility. Mostly, what I was trying to say in this post was A) it's understandable to feel wanky about things in fandom, for fandom is about over-investment in things, BUT B) this does not excuse you from self-censorship and refraining from personal attacks. I definitely agree that it's not worth destroying relationships with friends over whether or not John Sheppard is a slut.
 
posted by [identity profile] moorspede.livejournal.com at 12:28am on 05/01/2007
Nothing to add other than to thank you for your thoughtful post.
 
posted by [identity profile] joandarck.livejournal.com at 05:45pm on 10/01/2007
(I just wanted to fangirl how well you answer all these comments. You're friendly, clear, you remember what your original opinion was (I always have trouble with that) but you have a real response to everyone else's (also tough), even the hostile ones (/o\ *hides*). It's so cool!)
ext_7824: Greta Salpeter (Default)
posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 07:06pm on 17/01/2007
eeee! I didn't reply to this for a week because, uhm, I deal badly with compliments, but this comment made me feel AWESOME. Because replying to comments is something I really do try to work on, and something I found incredibly difficult when first starting out on LJ, and just. Yay! Thank you!
 
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without a scratch cozen strife
 
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astounding proficiency nearly territory

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