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posted by [personal profile] kalpurna at 10:21pm on 05/09/2007 under , , , ,
So you may have heard that some people disapprove of stagegay in bandom. I do not! Let me tell you why.

For the purposes of this argument, let's just talk about Fall Out Boy and My Chemical Romance, because they are the most prominent and longest-running proponents of the stagegay among bandom bands, and because they developed in parallel ways although they were part of two entirely different scenes.

When FOB and MCR started playing music, they were both involved in scenes – Chicago hardcore and New Jersey punk – where there was rampant homophobia, misogyny, and a lot of hyper-masculine posturing. They both drifted away from these scenes. Both of them have expressed, in interviews, that the intolerance they encountered was one of the major reasons they decided to distance themselves from the bands and music they had been involved with. Each band independently decided to get together and do something that was not that. They started playing with each other on stage, wearing make-up, and aggressively embracing the things they saw other people being intolerant of.

Then, each band got famous.

It's very important to keep these steps in order, because it has everything to do with why I will never, ever see FOB and MCR's stagegay as being in any way cultural appropriation. When members of a dominant culture appropriate aspects of an oppressed culture for entertainment, they characteristically do two things: first, they take stereotypical characteristics and exaggerate them for comedic effect, for people to laugh at, and secondly, they distance themselves personally from identifying with the group in question. They get the audience laughing at the characters, while making sure that offstage, they are not subjected to any of the hate or bigotry that goes along with that. They say "this is entertaining" and "this is not me" with the same breath. That is what blackface entails, and that is, to me, the most hateful thing about it.

When FOB and MCR began their flirtations with gender and sexuality, they were literally doing the exact opposite of what I have described above. They were deliberately taking on the degradation, the hatred, the inflammatory remarks. And they didn't use stereotypes to do so, they used behavior. They encouraged their audience to cheer for men physically expressing affection and sexual interest in each other – not for lisps and rainbow tuxedos.

It wasn't all political, either. The stagegay not only comes from the boys themselves, it comes from the boys' close, affectionate, genuinely loving relationships with one another. They are really, really good friends, and their bands were patched together with sweat and road trips and friendship, not with producers and marketing agencies. The kissing and groping don't come from two actors in a staged scene, they come from people who have been having fun with and sharing space with each other for years. Even if the emotion motivating them to grope each other isn't pure physical homosexual lust, it's still completely genuine, it's still real. These are staged displays of real relationships, regardless of whether those relationships are sexual.

And they could not possibly have expected the positive response they got. Now, when Pete flirts with Patrick on stage, a whole roomful of their fans will cheer – but with the exception of the twelve of us who come from media slash fandom, very very few of those people came to that concert primarily for the homoeroticism. It may well be the case that right now, the mainstream opinion among twelve-year-old girls is that boys kissing is hot. This was categorically not the case ten years ago. If there is a market for stagegay, it is not one that these bands could possibly have been expecting to tap into when they started out. Personally? I think that the fact that middle schoolers will look at a picture of two boys kissing and say "hot!" instead of "eww!" is fucking amazing. That is awesome. And MCR and FOB didn't come around to take advantage of that – they created that.

Even with all those screaming fans, though, our band boys constantly get shit for acting "gay." Constantly! Magazines, TV shows, smug radio hosts, guys in bars, people on the street, bloggers, all of them smirk and call these guys big queers. There are many, many men and boys who will not get into their music because those bands are so fucking gay. Recently, at Download, MCR were getting heavily bottled by angry metal fans, and someone up front yelled, "Faggots!" In response to which Frank Iero stalked up to Gerard Way, grabbed his hair, and stuck his tongue down his throat while he was trying to sing. (This is not an exaggeration.) Consistently, over and over again, My Chemical Romance and Fall Out Boy have responded to "fags!" with "hell yeah, motherfucker, now deal with it." They don't say, "No, but we're really straight!"

And that's another thing. The frontmen of these bands have been asked both insinuating and straight-forward questions about their sexuality in interviews over and over and over again. Show me one clip, just one, of Gerard or Pete saying, "I am completely 100% straight." Some of them use non-gender-specific pronouns to talk about significant others. I don't know if that's because they aren't straight, and frankly, I don't care. What I care about is that given the opportunity to deny those "insults," none of them will take the easy way out. Instead, they want people to think about whether they can still be into this guy if he's gay. If that makes you uncomfortable, they don't need you to buy their records. Seriously. Go home. They don't need that kind of fan, and they have said so flat-out.

The members of Fall Out Boy and My Chemical Romance frequently, vocally, and enthusiastically express support for anyone who feels different and alienated, who feels like they don't belong, who feels queer. It's the audience they seek out, the audience they want to speak to. They wear homemade shirts saying "Homophobia is gay." They say, "I admire my gay fans for being brave and strong enough to come out," and, "Homophobia. I'll never understand it." All of this may well be politically correct to say in today's atmosphere, but there is absolutely nothing that should make them say it so loudly or so often. It's activism, and it's sincere.

All of this means that no matter what's going on in their personal lives – no matter who they're sleeping with, or what their sexual identity may be – the members of these two bands have chosen to say, "Whether or not I'm gay, I want you to treat me like I am, and I'm going to push you to wonder if I am, and I'm not going to back away from that if I get shit for it. Queer people are my people." Because these bands exist, you can be a 14 year old gay kid growing up in some small town, and you can go to your first concert and watch your idols make out on stage while a thousand people cheer, and then one of them picks up the microphone and says, this is a song for anyone who has ever felt alone.



That's not blackface.
There are 203 comments over 4 pages. (Reply.)
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posted by [identity profile] disarm-d.livejournal.com at 02:29am on 06/09/2007
Oh, well put. Well put. I actually got a little bit teary-like when I read this:
Because these bands exist, you can be a 14 year old gay kid growing up in some small town, and you can go to his first concert and watch your idols make out on stage while a thousand people cheer, and then one of them will pick up the microphone and says, this is a song for anyone who has ever felt alone.

Just. Yes. I agree with all this, so hard. And you've phrased is just brilliantly.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 02:32am on 06/09/2007
oh god, except for my pronoun failure. *edits*

Thank you so much, I'm so glad this made sense to someone other than me! It's – I mean, some people will always make fun of me for saying this, but these bands mean something to me. Gerard Way means something to me. And if I were a depressed, gay middle-school outcast? Wow, I can't even imagine.
 
posted by [identity profile] svilleficrecs.livejournal.com at 02:33am on 06/09/2007
Hee. I just watched the clip.

Hee! It was like a wet-willy, only with a tongue and a mouth instead of a finger and an ear.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 02:36am on 06/09/2007
I like how you can hear his singing cut off! "LA LA LA LA BRB KISSING."
 
posted by [identity profile] cheshireempress.livejournal.com at 02:38am on 06/09/2007
Yes. That. Just... worlds of yes. Thank you so much for saying everything that I would have liked to say, and putting it so neatly and kindly and rationally.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 02:41am on 06/09/2007
Awww, thank you so much! That's really sweet, I'm so glad you liked it. ♥
 
posted by [identity profile] impertinence.livejournal.com at 02:40am on 06/09/2007
Hi! This is a really awesome post.

It may well be the case that right now, the mainstream opinion among twelve-year-old girls is that boys kissing is hot. This was not categorically not the case ten years ago.

YES. My younger sister is twelve and has conversations in public about how cute it is that male anime characters are in love. That is, actually, progress.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 02:44am on 06/09/2007
:D Thanks!

See, that's the thing! Worries about fetishization are always valid concerns, but oh man, how amazing is it that that's even a worry? I remember CLEARLY saying I thought boys together were hot in 7th grade and hearing a chorus of ewwws, and that was among liberal kids. Now, I feel like some girl would pipe up, "Oh my gosh, do you know about MCR?" And that just fills me with ♥.
 
posted by [identity profile] darksylvia.livejournal.com at 02:50am on 06/09/2007
Yes to the power of a million.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 02:51am on 06/09/2007
♥ ♥ ♥
 
posted by [identity profile] thefirstpromise.livejournal.com at 02:54am on 06/09/2007
Wow, hi, you don't know me but I might love you a little bit (I was friendspage hopping, by the way).

As a teen-aged, bisexual girl, I love that these bands say what they want to, to whoever they want to. They don't have to do that, no body is telling them to (actually, it's probably quite the opposite. They're probably being told to tone it down sometimes). They do that because they actually care about what they're doing, and they know they believe in what it is they're saying. If they're "straight" (which is another discussion completely), then I think it's great that they're showing support for gay people (or any group in the 'minority'). Being mainstream bands, they're showing our society that it's OK. They're being ragged on in every possible media outlet, and they've been threatened and literally had physical fights because they're men who wear make up, but they keep doing it because it's something they believe in.

I don't know if that came across the way I meant it to, but basically I'm agreeing with you 100%. I came out this summer to my best friend and my gay friend at the same time, and it felt really good to let someone know. It feels amazing to know that these bands wouldn't look down on me for knowing I liked girls, too, to put it simply. It feels amazing to know that they would actually encourage me, and tell me that being myself is the best way to be. I'm still scared to come out to everyone, but I know eventually I will, and it definitely helps that these people are doing what they're doing. It helps to know that there are people out there who agree with what they're doing and won't look down on me or think differently of me. It's part of the reason I love them.

You also made me cry a little bit, maybe, reading that last paragraph.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 03:07am on 06/09/2007
:D Yay!

Dude. "Ma and Pa Walton don't like it when I do interviews about kissing boys." There are absolutely people telling them to tone it down, and there must have been many more before they made it big. There is no possible way I will ever, ever believe that Gerard Way is not sincere about fighting homophobia uh, everything he does ever, come to think of it. There is no way you go through all of that bullshit, all of those smirky insinuations, if you don't believe in what you're doing.

That is so, so wonderful. I feel a little dorky sometimes saying that My Chem has genuinely helped me with my depression, but man, it's true. It really is. Gerard came into this business to save lives, and damn if that's not what he's doing. And hey, this goes without saying, but you know fandom loves you and is here for you as a bi girl, right? Us and Pete and Gerard, we're all here to encourage you and adore you for who you are. ♥

Oh, honey, now I'm going to cry. *hugs you*
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posted by [identity profile] loveyouallwrong.livejournal.com at 02:54am on 06/09/2007
They encouraged their audience to cheer for men physically expressing affection and sexual interest in each other – not for lisps and rainbow tuxedos.

That's exactly what I was thinking in my head but couldn't articulate. I feel like that's what she thinks they're doing, perpetuating gay stereotypes, but I can't figure out where on earth she got that from.

This was an amazing post to see tonight. ♥!
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 03:11am on 06/09/2007
I know, right? Dudes making out in public ≠ ladies making out in public, and there's a reason that in all those seasons of Will & Grace, Will kissed another guy... once? Maybe? This is not the heterosexual appropriation you are looking for!

Thank you so much, bb! :D
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posted by [personal profile] ladysorka at 03:08am on 06/09/2007
Thank you for posting this.

Just, yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Everything you said. That. Exactly.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 03:13am on 06/09/2007
*blushes* Thank you so so much. I'm really glad other people are feeling this way too.
 
posted by [identity profile] dragonfly66.livejournal.com at 03:15am on 06/09/2007
Jesus, *thank you*, for saying everything I could have wanted to say and for saying it so goddamn well.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 03:21am on 06/09/2007
:D Oh man, thank you so much! That's really nice of you to say.
 
posted by [identity profile] jadziadrgnrdr.livejournal.com at 03:18am on 06/09/2007
I wanted to answer back to that other conversation but all I would have wound up saying is. "I'm bi and you should just shut the hell up is what you should do!" but that's not thinky and well laid out. This is. Therefore you win.

Everything you said is exactly right. Did you link this over there or at least argue the motion?
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 03:24am on 06/09/2007
Aww, thanks! :D

No, I think she's probably feeling plenty attacked right now. I just wanted to say what I was feeling, I don't mean to start any kind of fight or make her feel like I was demanding a response. That said, it's okay for anyone to link this anywhere they want to.
 
posted by [identity profile] sockich.livejournal.com at 03:29am on 06/09/2007
I've been trying to find the words to say this ever since I got into bandom. Thank you for doing it for me. ♥ ♥ ♥
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 03:32am on 06/09/2007
That is the sweetest thing to say, oh my God! I am literally blushing right now. :D ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
 
posted by [identity profile] greyandgrey.livejournal.com at 03:32am on 06/09/2007
Oh my freaking god, YES. This is just so exactly right on so many levels.

I get pissed off when certain members of the queer community get all offended by anyone who isn't queer tries to support gay rights in an outspoken way. I hear shit like "They didn't have to go through it growing up! They don't understand because they haven't lived it!"

Um, guess what guys? I'm queer, and I don't get where you're coming from in the truly empathetic way you're demanding. Want to know why? Because it's different for everyone. Growing up queer in an affluent suburb is different from growing up queer in a small rural town is different from growing up queer in the inner-city. Gender-queer people have a different experience from sexuality-queer people, because I can grow up to like girls, but still have played house when I was 5. Some people realize they're queer when they're practically in diapers, others take til college or later to figure it out. And that's good, that's ok. Because diversity in any form is good. And diversity among a minority is AWESOME, because it makes it harder to pigeon-hole people into a certain label. Sexuality and gender identity are not binary systems that are easily separated out, and any blurring of those lines is more than fine by me because the harder it is to make a clear distinction, the harder it is to categorically reject something.

One thing I wish is that the media would start acknowledging openly bisexual celebs. Because people have this glitch where they seem to not realize that the spectrum between the two poles exists. There's Anne Hache (sp?), but she was never labeled bi. She "turned gay" for Ellen, then got straight again. And there was that whole thing with her mental health and split personality and it was generally weird. Then there's Cynthia Nixon. Who I'm pretty darn sure is bi, because she had a successful marriage, kids, admittedly never thought she was gay until she met her partner and fell in love. SHE DID NOT MAGICALLY TURN GAY OVERNIGHT! And people don't seem to get that you cannot define someone's whole sexuality by their current partner.

Whoa man. I just rambled quite a bit. And am also preaching to the choir, I know. Just - I love these boys, and I love their stagegay and their lack of pronouns in interviews and their intentionally queer answers to q&a questions. I love that they want to change attitudes, and whether their means are successful or not, they want to. And that's always gonna count for something to me.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 03:39am on 06/09/2007
This is so, so true, and it's ESPECIALLY true for people like us – bi women. The idea that bi women somehow have the same experience as gay men, in a way that excludes straight men, is just. What? There are a million million factors that go into how your coming out experience goes, especially if you're somewhere in the middle of that wide spectrum. BIPHOBIA. DO NOT WANT.

And if there is ONE commonality to all queer experiences, if there is ONE thing we all share, that's being made to feel like a freak. Being an outsider. Wanting someone to understand. Wanting someone to say "I love you for who you are, and it's okay. You don't have to be like they say you have to be. I am here to stand with you, I think you're cool, I'm just as weird and fucked up as you feel."

Why, hello there, Gerard Way.

OMG I FORGOT TO MENTION PRONOUN GAMES, I FUCKING LOVE PRONOUN GAMES MORE THAN ANYTHING. MAYBE I SHOULD ETA WITH P.S. ALSO THEY PLAY PRONOUN GAMES
 
posted by [identity profile] entropical87.livejournal.com at 03:37am on 06/09/2007
I love your brain. You nailed exactly why I had that feeling of "but... no?" while reading the other essay. Anything more I add to that would just be rehashing what you've already said.

*big fucking hearts*
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 03:41am on 06/09/2007
 
posted by [identity profile] aldrea7.livejournal.com at 03:51am on 06/09/2007
I kind of love you more than words right now.

Yes, all of what you said. You're completely and totally right and I love that because it gives me hope for the future of civil rights, and the fact that two of my favorite bands had a part in that makes me very happy and a little proud of them for not backing down at all.

I love you for writing this as much as I love them for doing it.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 04:02am on 06/09/2007
Oh, thank you so much, bb! I am so fucking proud of those guys sometimes I can't breathe. I love them a LOT. ♥

*snuggles you & them*
 
posted by [identity profile] longtime-lurker.livejournal.com at 03:58am on 06/09/2007
Dropping by randomly to say thank you for this. You absolutely nailed it.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 04:03am on 06/09/2007
Eeee, thank you so much! :D I'm so glad you think so!
 
posted by [identity profile] la-ri-sah.livejournal.com at 03:59am on 06/09/2007
dude, i don't even know you. i'm friendsfriends jumping and trying to follow this whole thing because i'm a supporter/fan of MCR and i get what you're saying and i think you hit it PERFECTLY. people that say things just don't seem to get what MCR (and FOB) are trying to do. its not just gays, its OUTCASTS. the losers and nerds and loners. thats who they're trying to help.

all those boys, they've never made a cent off "acting gay," they made their money and fame off of being MUSICIANS. i dunno what i'm trying to say other than YES I AGREE AND I'M GLAD YOU CAN WRITE IT MORE ELOQUENTLY THAN ME.

thank you!
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 04:07am on 06/09/2007
That's it exactly, dude! It's not just that they support "the gay community," whatever theoretical monolith THAT might be. It's that they support being confused, being curious, feeling like a freak, being sad, being an outcast, not knowing what to say, being fucked up – because hey, we're like you. We get it, and we love you, and come listen to us sing.

♥ ♥ ♥
 
posted by [identity profile] nobodygirl.livejournal.com at 03:59am on 06/09/2007
This was so beautifully articulated.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 04:09am on 06/09/2007
Oh man, thank you so much. I'm so glad you think so. ♥
 
posted by [identity profile] somewhatdeluded.livejournal.com at 04:09am on 06/09/2007
Word. Word. Word. And also, word.

I seriously just don't have enough coherence to tell you how much I want to applaud outloud for you right now.

I spent most of middle and high school responding to taunts of "dyke" and "lesbo" with "...so what if I were?" I'm not really all that gay, I'm a bi girl who has historically almost exclusively had relationships with dudes, and at the time I was still pretty much straight-identified, but my sister is gay, and was out back then, and every single time they said "dyke" with a sneer I felt like I had two choices: attack the label's applicability to me, and by doing so imply that queerness was, inherently, an insult, or attack the use of the label as an insult, which made it kind of hard to argue with the label's applicability to me. You really can't say "I'M GOING TO TAKE THIS MOMENT JUST TO CLARIFY THAT I AM NOT THAT HORRIBLE THING YOU'VE JUST CALLED ME...oh, and also, I don't think that it's such a horrible thing." That statement? Doesn't work. It just doesn't. Insisting on refuting the label inherently implies that you don't want to, you know. Get it on you. Honestly, this is part of why I'm in general more impressed with MCR's handling of the issue than FOB's, because FOB *does* spend so much time saying "WE LOVE GAY PEOPLE BUT OH NO WE ARE NOT GAY NOT EVEN A LITTLE", which, like, I understand, because seriously, but I think it's a statement that undermines itself. To my knowledge, none of the guys in MCR have ever said that they aren't bi or gay. They've said they have girlfriends/fiancees/wives, but that is really not the same thing. They're trying to make it be about details and not labels, and I have a lot of respect for that. Which isn't to say FOB handles it poorly; I just think MCR handles it better.

Anyway. I'm rambling. But I agree so much with what you've said here. I think the chronology is *hugely* important. *hugely*. And I think it's hugely important to remember that where these guys were coming up and up-and-coming, touching other boys on stage was career suicide.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 04:21am on 06/09/2007
MSC WHY ARE YOU MY META BRAINTWIN. ILU. I agree with this a lot a lot.

(Although to be fair, Pete has said, explicitly, "I don't want to say 'No' when people ask me if I'm gay." Like, I think he does get it. He's just... way more overshare-y than Gerard. I like anal sex a lot! I'm not into penises, but I like to make out! Here is a picture of my peen! Oh, Pete.)

Uhm, but of course MCR still wins the awesome contest, because THEY ARE PRETTY MUCH MADE OF IT AMIRIGHT

<33333333
 
posted by [identity profile] shrift.livejournal.com at 04:16am on 06/09/2007
Dude, WORD. To everything you said.

I don't know. Maybe so many people are cranky about bandom because this is how they perceive the guys, because they don't actually know anything about them or their history.

They couldn't do this ten years ago and get even a tiny bit of the positive fan reaction they get now. In the 90s, even David Bowie was distancing himself from his claims of bisexuality. DAVID FUCKING BOWIE.

The fact that these guys are visibly tackling issues of race, gender, class, and sexuality and maybe changing the face of popular culture is awesome. I love these freaky little dudes for being freaky little dudes no matter what.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 04:25am on 06/09/2007
Oh, honey, I was just thinking of you, because over on the other post, someone just asked if the stage gay was really even that noticeable, and I was like, THIS PERSON NEEDS A PROJEKT GAYMOLUTION LINK ASAP. Seriously? A lot of people seem to have 0% canon knowledge, and a whoooole lot of opinions.

Maybe so many people are cranky about bandom because we are happy and flourishing and our canon kicks ass?

UM YEAH, THAT. HELLO. NO ONE WAS LIKE, DUDES, PLZ GAY IT UP, WE'LL MAKE $$.

It's okay to be fucked up, because there are five other guys who are just as fucked up as you. Ugh, I love them so much it hurts me.
 
posted by [identity profile] beatperfume.livejournal.com at 04:35am on 06/09/2007
I don't really have the energy to get into an argument right now, so I'm gonna say this here, where I know people will agree with me, instead of over there. Maybe it's a little cowardly, but I'm really tired ^^

I agree 100% with everything you said here. And I wanted to add this:

People are making a big deal out of the stagegay right now, and okay. Yes, that goes on. But the "stagegay" at a Fall Out Boy concert consists of Pete leaning on Patrick and sometimes kissing his shoulder. And yeah, we love it, but if you're going to appropriate someone's culture or whatever else, then you I think you'd choose something more dramatic than leaning.

And mostly I wanted to say, stagegay is awesome, but that's not what bandom's about. Her argument implied that the ONLY time they're affectionate or even slightly queer acting is on stage, and that's just blatantly not true. What makes bandom great is those moments of casual affection. The candid photos of the guys just cuddling each other.

I dunno, maybe I'm not making sense. It's late. Mostly, just yes to what you said, and another vote for a queer person who is not offended by people being my allies.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 08:55pm on 06/09/2007
It's absolutely true that they are just as cuddly off-stage, if not more! That's the thing – you will never, ever convince me those emotions are fake, because they express them constantly. The stagegay is one tiny facet of the whole bandom canon, and it disappoints me that people who aren't bandslashers don't seem to understand that.
 
posted by [identity profile] sori1773.livejournal.com at 04:43am on 06/09/2007
I love this post beyond all reason! Your words and this thread (http://phaballa.livejournal.com/329514.html?thread=7902762#t7902762) have made my head far less achy then it would have been.

(and hi! here via a del.icio.us bookmark! :D)
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 08:56pm on 06/09/2007
Oh, thank you! I'm really glad it helped with the achiness, because yes, I fully understand how you felt. ♥
 
posted by [identity profile] jocondite.livejournal.com at 05:31am on 06/09/2007
This was an amazing post. I read along with my head nodding frenetically like a bobblehead, and when I got to the end I teared up. Thank you so much for expressing this so eloquently.
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 08:57pm on 06/09/2007
Oh, man, thank you. I think we are just one big weepy pile of love in bandom right now, and I just. *passes you the kleenex*
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posted by [identity profile] etben.livejournal.com at 06:31am on 06/09/2007
(feel free to respond to this as discussed earlier)

YES. YES. WORLD OF YES. I could not agree with you more if you were paying me cold hard cash.

and for me, it keeps coming back to all of the "non-traditional" queer people - specifically bisexuals! because I love them most! but also everyone who "doesn't act gay". Because now that we have a tradition - now that the mainstream is, by and large, acknowledging that HAI GUYZ WE IS HAS QUEERZ - it becomes more and more a question of broadening that definition.

Because it's never as simple as we want it to be. People are always outside our boxes, no matter how many of them we make - and I think it's awesome that these guys are poking at the edges of what they see all around them, making their fans question what the shit we want with all of these boxes anyway.

to take a metaphor too far, can't we just recycle the fucking cardboard? can that happen?
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posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 09:00pm on 06/09/2007
SHUT YOUR STUPID FACE RYAN ROSS.

♥ hi hi tonight omg hi
ext_1186: shadows of utena and anthy (Default)
posted by [identity profile] rynia.livejournal.com at 06:58am on 06/09/2007
Thank you for staying calm and collected through this. I don't think I could have, had I gotten involved. I just have to wonder if the original poster has ever been to any local shows, known people in the rock scene, understood how predominately homophobic (and even racist, though it's an issue that I don't know should've been brought into the entire equation) the scene can be. In any case, if it's alright with you, I've linked you in my (admittedly short) statement on the matter.
ext_7824: Greta Salpeter (Default)
posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 09:01pm on 06/09/2007
Man, exactly. I have never been in the rock scene, personally, but I know a lot of people who have, and it's NOT a place where people are going to say "Yay, gay fanservice!" Context: it matters.

Link away, babe! :D
 
posted by [identity profile] bexless.livejournal.com at 07:21am on 06/09/2007
Yes. YES. See, if I had made this post, it would just have come out as OH MY GOD, SHUT THE FUCK UP, so I'm glad you made it, because this was EVERYTHING I was thinking.
ext_7824: Greta Salpeter (Default)
posted by [identity profile] kalpurna.livejournal.com at 09:03pm on 06/09/2007
THAT WAS MY INITIAL REACTION. But then I thought that might not convey my point so well, maybe. I'm so glad this worked for you! ♥
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